Listening Assembly

Report from Listening Assembly held in Holy Redeemer Parish, Bray,

on Tuesday December 15th 2009.

This report has two parts:

Part 1: Summary of the ‘Listening Assembly’
Part 2: Detailed feedback from the ‘Listening Assembly’

Part 1: Summary of the ‘Listening Meeting’ held on 15th December 2009 in Holy Redeemer Bray, following the publication of the Murphy Report

Sadness and horror at the extent of the child sex abuse
Very strong views were expressed by every one of the hurt and anger felt following the revelations in the Murphy Report. It was acknowledged that the sexual abuse of children was by far the most horrific part of the Report. The depth of sadness for victims, including victims who are now dead and who were never heard or believed, was expressed. A father, whose son had been abused, welcomed the Report, as the abused are now given belated credibility.

Corruption
It was equally stressed that the clerical culture of arrogance, abuse of power and cover-up, could only be described as corruption. Not only was there corruption in the Archdiocese of Dublin, but it went right to Rome and to the Pope. The meeting requested that two questions be put to the Archdiocese:

1. What did the Pope know and when did he know it?
2. What did Rome know and when did it know it?

We would expect the Archdiocese to advise us on this matter.

The non accountability of bishops is totally unacceptable. There were strong views expressed that all bishops and clerics who were criticised in the Report should step down. Surprise was expressed that they have not done so already and it was viewed that they are holding onto power, even though it is obvious that they are damaging the church by remaining in office. There is a real need for radical change in the structure and management of the church. There is a need to get rid of the arrogant attitude and for openness and transparency. The cover up of child sex abuse was utterly appalling.

The lifestyle of clerics
The lifestyle of priests was commented upon. It was questioned as to why the church tends to attract these types of people who abused our children. Several mentioned that compulsory celibacy should be abolished. By not allowing priests to marry, the Church implies that women could taint their priests. Their training is also divorced from the real world in which they will minister.

Our Community of Holy Redeemer
There was much comment to the effect that while the revelations in the Murphy Report are horrific, people’s faith, in general, has not been shattered. Faith comes from within and it is not imperative that we have the institutional church to support it, even though some stated that they felt that there is a need for the institutional church to support their faith. Views were expressed that membership of and involvement in the community of Holy Redeemer was what was important to them and they were quite happy to relinquish association with the institutional church.

Part 2: Detailed feedback from the ‘Listening Assembly’ held on 15th December 2009 in Holy Redeemer Bray, following the publication of the Murphy Report

Introduction
A listening assembly was held in the Youth Centre in Holy Redeemer Parish on December 15th 2009 to allow people to talk, to share, to listen and to reflect in the light of the findings of the Murphy Report into child sexual abuse and how it was managed in the Archdiocese of Dublin. About 30 people attended. Jane Ferguson, psychotherapist, formerly of PDR and now with Accord, and Pat Coughlan, Holy Ghost Father, psychotherapist and working with the Spirasi organisation for people who have been tortured, jointly facilitated the meeting.

Initially a definition of church was requested and, despite there being many definitions including ‘The People of God’, for the purpose of the discussion the church would be seen as institution. It was felt the exercise would be pointless if there is not a next step. The feedback will be given to the diocese but the fear was expressed that it would be ignored and no reply forthcoming. A second follow up meeting was proposed when a reply is received. This point was taken up again at the end of the meeting.

Jane and Pat asked two questions to get people focused:
· What is the worst part of all this for you?
· How has it affected you?

The following are summaries of the responses/inputs from those who attended:

· I am disappointed that it has taken place but it has not affected my faith in any way.

· What annoys me is that these people have not been brought to justice. They have been moved from parish to parish. Nothing is being done about it. One man moved to Scotland and now no one knows where he is...except some in church. I am concerned that it is still going on.

· Should have a balanced view on all this. I am a retired teacher and there was a case in school where, when reported to Health Board, child was not removed from family. Happens everywhere. 96.7% of abusers are not clerics, the Archbishop has opened the files and there is a clearing out. Recognition of good work of many clergy.

· My son was abused and the worst/best part of all this is that the report is out. The abused are given belated credibility; the community now believes them. He had to leave his community, get psychiatric help, only now is he believed. I appreciate good clergy who are left feeling tainted by sins of others. What is galling about the whole thing is that the corruption goes all the way to the top.

· It is important to have balanced view. How difficult must it be for those abused? The corruption goes all the way to the current Pope. It is in the cover up by the so called princes of the church. We are witnessing huge nails being hammered into the coffin of the institutional church. I recommend that we send a message to Clonliffe, that we donate every cent collected on Christmas Day to an appropriate support charity (It was decided to discuss this again at end of meeting). What we are seeing is so far removed from the humble carpenter’s son, Jesus.

· Statistics are flawed. Yes, 96.7% of abuse is by non-clerics but, considering the small number of clerics in the Dublin Archdiocese relative to the general population, the amount of abuse perpetrated by them is totally out of proportion. Why have these individuals been attracted to church, supported by church and covered up for by church for so long? I fear there is worse to come. A radical overhaul of the institution is needed. My personal church is this parish, the community here. I don’t care what Rome says, what the diocese says. I would welcome a church that goes back to concept of community and away from concept of institution. I support our current clergy here in Holy Redeemer.

· I am concerned that these individuals are accepted by the church in the first place. It is an unnatural existence. I suggest their training is divorced from the real world in which they will minister. Many were recruited to priesthood and religious life at early age and too ashamed to leave at 18 or 19.

·The worst part is the way our church has covered up and now, three weeks later, nothing has happened, the bishops seem accountable to no one. Do they feel above all this? I am going to keep talking and not let this die. I support the victims and survivors and the good priest. They have all been let down by the bishops.

· This report covers only a small number of cases that happened. There are many more cases not covered. 5 bishops are named. They knew children were being raped and yet they moved these men around and it is absolutely inconceivable that these bishops are still here. I would like to see them prosecuted and forced to resign. Over the years I have seen bullying, vanity, cruelty in the hierarchy; good priests have been run out of a church that is barren of good intelligent theology and morality. I am so sorry for those cast into despair by the hierarchy and I see no sign of change from hierarchy or Vatican. It nauseates me that we are constantly told ‘We are church’ by people who used mental reservation. We are discouraged from thinking for ourselves. The hierarchy are dishonest and deeply corrupt. To say they should resign en masse is sensationalist but nothing will happen because of anything lay people say.

· I was educated in 50s in Ireland and experienced no abuse but I knew there were a few ‘bad pills.’ The bishops seem to have been the most inadequate group to deal with this abuse. The church’s credibility has been badly damaged. It was like the Garden of Gethsemane where everyone abandoned Jesus. It fell apart. It will fall apart now too. But I am not going to bow my head down, because others did wrong. It hasn’t affected my faith. The abusers should be in jail. Maybe those who covered up should be too.

· What causes abuse? We need to examine the Irish psyche. When cases come up in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Irish names are mentioned. What fertile ground allowed this to happen? Is it an Irish/ western world problem? How do we ensure it never happens again?

· How are our young people processing this? They have a very strong sense of justice and empathy for those who suffered. They are clear and articulate. We need to be mindful of how they see things. They are confused as they see no resolution.

· Archbishop Diarmuid Martin appealed to young people not to leave the church. These are only words. They need to see action. I am horrified at the cover up and how it is now being handled. The bishops have known for months that this was coming up and it is as if they have been taken by surprise. There would appear to be no management structure in place. They should have had adequate response ready. The fact that the Catholic Church had such high standing in Ireland makes it worse. If they cared enough for church and for community they would step down for the good of the institution and for the good of our faith. They are not big enough to do that. They are corrupt and want to hold on to power. At Vatican II we were told to take ownership. Now we are not allowed. There should be management by laity, freeing clergy for pastoral work. If not for the community here in Holy Redeemer I would be gone. I wash my hands of the hierarchy and it goes all the way to the Pope. We need to protect our community.

· I feel shame and grief for those who went to their graves not having told anyone and not having been believed. Hopefully those who have spoken out now can get help and healing. The power the hierarchy had over us as we grew up! They were on a pedestal. I was so afraid I wouldn’t be confirmed if I didn’t know answer to bishop’s question. One bishop confirmed my child and spoke of gifts of spirit and need for courage and faith. He didn’t practice what he preached. What would Jesus, the carpenter‘s son, feel today? I feel such need for the support of our local church. Where else is there to go to?

· A retired teacher reported abuse by priest to principal. The priest was moved immediately. Then, at a later date, she saw him in a parish with access to other vulnerable, disabled children. It troubled her conscience that she didn’t speak out again because she felt helpless. They knew how to move him on and on. And the children he abused were children who couldn’t speak up for themselves.

· I’m from Bray. Holy Redeemer has been so important to me. I don’t know where I will go now. This has all confirmed what I have thought for years, that women and children have no place in church. They should close the church and begin again. I won’t go to church again till something happens. This has left a big hole in my life.

· I have never felt blessed as a woman in the Catholic Church. I have experienced this feeling of being valued in other faith communities. I come because the Eucharist is still the Eucharist, Jesus is still Jesus, so for that reason I will stay but I do feel used and objectified by this misogynistic institution. The hierarchy are so arrogant. They do not listen. The church is a dictatorship. There is a real need to change.

· I have friends who are in other churches and in none. When asked why I stay in this church I used to feel hypocritical when replying that we here do not always ‘go exactly with Rome.’ I used to think the Pope was well meaning. I never suspected such evil. The church must change. The secret is to build up the ‘little’ local church, to focus on small communities. We are called to clarify exactly what we want. We need to get back to the bible, to the message of Jesus who was a radical in his day. He would say to the institution: ‘Cut the crap and may God forgive you.’

· Possibly the worst part for me is that the Church I walked away from 20 years ago is still there. I cannot feel connected to this hierarchical church, but I feel connected to church of Holy Redeemer. Those bishops shouldn’t retire. They should be fired. They have had too much time to consider their positions. It is time to go. They are not part of my church. Last year’s confirmations were much less personal than in previous years because we had the ‘honour’ of having a bishop. He had the cheek to tell us we had to accept change and I am disgusted, annoyed but not surprised that they won’t change themselves. I ask them to leave my church alone. I am part of Holy Redeemer not of the bigger institution. I have zero expectation that anything positive will come of this.

· This church institution is around for 2000 years. No institution survives that long without corruption. Look at history of corrupt popes in Rome. In penal times church in Ireland was a church of the people. As it got wealthier it lost touch with ordinary people. We need a return to central values. I am shocked, disgusted, annoyed yet I see need for the institution too.

· For me membership of Holy Redeemer is important but it is important to be member of bigger church too. We need support of bigger organisation. It is better now that things are out in the open. This civil war will make church better. Leaders need to accept buck stops with them and apologise and resign.

· The institution itself is institutionalised. Too many have accepted what institution said. We are stymied, stuck. We need change.

· I feel for people who say they are not coming back. We are the church. Bishops say they know hurt and will pray for church. But we want radical structural change not crocodile tears.

·It seems that the church in third world countries is more in tune with needs of its people. I am dreadfully sad that there are no very young people at this meeting. They are disillusioned. I wonder do they feel they wouldn’t be listened to.

· Institution not important. Jesus calls people regardless of church.

· Don’t give up hope. It is great to be allowed express views and speak out.

·As a priest I must ask myself what we have to learn. We need to ask what lessons are there for us as community, as church, as priest, bishop, religious? What lesson is there for me? It is good that it has all been identified and exposed.

· I see the church as a means to an end, the end being the fostering of relationship with God/Jesus. Now the church has been seen to be an end in itself, the institution more important than the individual. Some people have said that all this has not affected their faith. But I have young adult children and it has affected their fragile faith in God and that is heartbreaking.

· If bishops do resign and are just replaced by others will it all continue? The rules of secrecy have to change. Openness/ transparency is vital. Out of the negative can come hope.

· The safety of children is more important than obeying an institution. I feel abused (not sexually) by the church because of all that has happened. The pain in this room is very real.

· 2 questions need answers: 1. What did the Pope know and when did he know it? 2. What did Rome know and when did it know it?

· The greatest insult to women is that we are not allowed taint priests by marrying them. Great priests have left because of getting married. Their formation is flawed. They are encouraged to have blind obedience and if they had to take responsibility for family life it would teach them realistic lessons about life. Celibacy should be optional. It is difficult for priests to support abuse victims knowing that priests abused too.

· I wonder does my work hinder the work of the Holy Spirit. If I had two lifetimes working as a pastoral worker I doubt I could create the ownership/engagement with faith that I see in people here. There is great energy in this room and out of all the negativity that is very positive.

· The bishops are going to have to be seen to do something if people are to feel a need to go back to church. They are arrogant/proud asking us to pray that they’ll make the right decision. Christians believe in the humble Christ who believed in taking responsibility for his own actions. We have to see that taking of responsibility again. I fear for my children. They have got bad example from the church.

· We need to know that our bishop in our diocese is listening and we should put forward a time frame in which an answer is expected to our submission. We need to know what goes to Archbishop, and then Fr Enda and the Parish Pastoral Council should call another assembly like this one where the answer from the Archbishop is given to us.

· To resign before being forced to do so is an honourable thing. Like an earlier speaker I also would like a return to small communities. I would love to see bible groups springing up all over our parish.

·It was suggested that collection on Christmas day be given to appropriate support group. After discussion and realisation that most of it goes to pay salaries of local clergy and clergy in poorer parishes, it was decided to let the PPC discuss it and maybe decide on a special collection in New Year.

Recommendations:
·The Parish Pastoral Council will forward this feedback to the Archbishop requesting a response within a certain time.
·They will specifically ask the 2 questions: What did Rome/ Pope know and when did they know it?
·The Parish Pastoral Council will then call a follow up meeting to discuss the response.
·The Parish Pastoral council will discuss the matter of a Sunday collection for an appropriate support organisation for survivors of child abuse.
·Fr Enda will report on this assembly to his fellow priests on the Priests Council.

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